Episode 26
Curiosity, duty, and existential dread — with Joe Cheng
Joe Cheng is the CTO of Posit and the creator of Shiny. He joins Michael and Hadley to talk about why he almost walked away from AI work entirely over ethics concerns and what it takes to lead a team that didn't necessarily choose you. Plus, why saying yes to everyone is a worse strategy than it sounds. Bonus: Hadley calls out Joe's people-pleasing in real time.
Episode notes
Joe Cheng talks Shiny's 2012 origin story, his AI dilemma, and how Hadley taught him that directness beats politeness. Joe hits on reluctant leadership and why Posit moved from R-only to include Python without an existential crisis (mostly).
- Joe's 2012 self-doubt spiral that accidentally created Shiny
- Why Joe almost quit working on AI entirely
- The "loaded guns" problem with releasing AI tools
- Hadley's blunt leadership style vs. Joe's people-pleasing
- Nobody actually wanted to make Joe CTO?
- Joe's take on curiosity, duty, and fear as motivators
Hosts & guests
Data Scientist and Software Engineer at Posit, PBC
Michael Chow
Chief Scientist, Posit
Hadley Wickham
CTO, Posit PBC
Joe Cheng